i support not posting a band's lyrics. you know why people post lyrics online? for other people who just steal their **** on the internet instead of BUYING THEIR CD and reading them there. it's absolutely ridiculous how people never buy records anymore, especially from indie bands who's **** is affordable...MORE than affordable
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NO...i'm not in the band...i'm just faster and smarter and took the name first :)
i have both of the trophy scars records. but i cant read the lyrics in Goodnight alchemy cuz im retarded. and Hospital music didnt even have them. i try to buy as many peoples records as i can but its kind of a pain having to use a credit card and stuff for every cd i wanna buy plus some of them dont have lyrics.
yeah, i hear you that some discs dont have them. but most the time then the lyrics are available online anyways. i was speaking in generalities. as for having to buy stuff on a credit card and having it be a pain, imagine the pain of what it takes to make a record and try to be a functional band these days!
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NO...i'm not in the band...i'm just faster and smarter and took the name first :)
at least im buying them. i usually dont buy bands cds that already big or bigger cuz they dont usually dont need the support
well said.
and what about the tab part. none of the bands I listen to have tab books. it's ridiculous to take away people's right to post their interpretations of music, and sub-sequentially, people's rights to read them. what's next, making sparknotes illegal?
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I'm a man who fucks with fire. I'm a man who sleeps with liars, but I don't come from Hell, no. I wasn't raised in Hell.
thats so gay. it really has nothing to do with whether it affects peoples' buying cds or not...
look at it this way. i buy a cd (or i burn it, it doesn't matter) and i figure out the lyrics by listening to them. i tell my friend who also has the cd that i figured out the lyrics, and he says "oh dude, tell me!" this is exactly the same as reading the lyrics off a site, except you don't know that person. someone somewhere figured out the lyrics.
tabs are an even better example, tabs weren't written in liner notes anywhere, someone FIGURED them out by listening to the music. anyone who is talented enough to do so can imitate what they hear, and whats illegal about helping those who can't?
-- Edited by lucas at 05:21, 2005-12-18
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One day a student in a math class asked his teacher why two plus two equalled four. Immediately, the skeleton of Aristotle popped out of the ground and said to him, "because I said so."
at least im buying them. i usually dont buy bands cds that already big or bigger cuz they dont usually dont need the support
well, thanks for buying something that costs a ****load of time and money to make, i'm sure the bands appreciate it...i'll bet you are sorely mistaken that the "bigger" bands don't need your support...
let's put it this way...a "bigger" band like, let's say chiodos or fall of troy are perfect examples (but even bands like everytime i die who have sold about 75-85k are just starting to cash in)...these bands have sold somewhere between 15 and 20k records...they probably aren't even making a cent from whats bought in stores unless they get lucky enough to reach the royalty threshold (for them, its probably about 50,000 units) where the label has been paid back for their expenses, so they are lucky to get an unmatured royalty rate of about 12.5-18% on each unit sold (split five ways!)...then the CD's that they buy from the label wholesale for probably $5 a unit (if they are lucky) and sell at shows for $10, thats a five dollar profit (split 5 ways so each band member essentially earns a buck)...now, it's even less than that since they have a manager to pay 10% of their gross earnings to...but you say that "ohhh, what about what they make from guarantees and merch at shows???" well, guarantees, which are now probably a couple hundred dollars for them, maybe up to 500 bucks if they get some overage, they have to give 10% of that to their booking agent...and probably 1/4 to 1/2 of that guarantee is eaten up from the gas to get to the show...leaving not a whole lot to split 5 ways...as for merch, its costs money to have it made and for artwork and it costs money to have an online store which usually can take about 15-25% of each piece sold...and not to mention dickhead venue owners that take up to 15% of gross merch sales from each band...then you have the road manager which can earn anywhere from $300-500/week...then the merch guy and roadie who get a couple hundred...theres soooo many expenses and believe me, the checks being written out are A LOT more plentiful than the ones cashing in...
...i know you see all these bands with gigantic 15 passenger vans and double axle trailers, and maybe even a tour bus...then you see all the kids lined up at the merch table buying their slick merch with wads of bills in the merch guys hands...but the bottom line, hardly anyone makes significant money in independant music...it's done for the love of artistic expression and the lifestyle (which is often taxing and difficult, although it may seem glamorous to you...) and maybe its great to get the food buyout and beer every night from the promoter if they arent a cheap ****, but usually the next morning, you are buying a burrito at the gas station even thought you've sold thousands of records and packed the venue last night...
...but, if you think you are such an expert and still think it's ok to steal the music that is the artists' livelihood, there ain't much anyone can do to stop you!
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NO...i'm not in the band...i'm just faster and smarter and took the name first :)
fall for life wrote: at least im buying them. i usually dont buy bands cds that already big or bigger cuz they dont usually dont need the support well, thanks for buying something that costs a ****load of time and money to make, i'm sure the bands appreciate it...i'll bet you are sorely mistaken that the "bigger" bands don't need your support... let's put it this way...a "bigger" band like, let's say chiodos or fall of troy are perfect examples (but even bands like everytime i die who have sold about 75-85k are just starting to cash in)...these bands have sold somewhere between 15 and 20k records...they probably aren't even making a cent from whats bought in stores unless they get lucky enough to reach the royalty threshold (for them, its probably about 50,000 units) where the label has been paid back for their expenses, so they are lucky to get an unmatured royalty rate of about 12.5-18% on each unit sold (split five ways!)...then the CD's that they buy from the label wholesale for probably $5 a unit (if they are lucky) and sell at shows for $10, thats a five dollar profit (split 5 ways so each band member essentially earns a buck)...now, it's even less than that since they have a manager to pay 10% of their gross earnings to...but you say that "ohhh, what about what they make from guarantees and merch at shows???" well, guarantees, which are now probably a couple hundred dollars for them, maybe up to 500 bucks if they get some overage, they have to give 10% of that to their booking agent...and probably 1/4 to 1/2 of that guarantee is eaten up from the gas to get to the show...leaving not a whole lot to split 5 ways...as for merch, its costs money to have it made and for artwork and it costs money to have an online store which usually can take about 15-25% of each piece sold...and not to mention dickhead venue owners that take up to 15% of gross merch sales from each band...then you have the road manager which can earn anywhere from $300-500/week...then the merch guy and roadie who get a couple hundred...theres soooo many expenses and believe me, the checks being written out are A LOT more plentiful than the ones cashing in... ...i know you see all these bands with gigantic 15 passenger vans and double axle trailers, and maybe even a tour bus...then you see all the kids lined up at the merch table buying their slick merch with wads of bills in the merch guys hands...but the bottom line, hardly anyone makes significant money in independant music...it's done for the love of artistic expression and the lifestyle (which is often taxing and difficult, although it may seem glamorous to you...) and maybe its great to get the food buyout and beer every night from the promoter if they arent a cheap ****, but usually the next morning, you are buying a burrito at the gas station even thought you've sold thousands of records and packed the venue last night... ...but, if you think you are such an expert and still think it's ok to steal the music that is the artists' livelihood, there ain't much anyone can do to stop you!
what you said is a very well thought out, very true statement. and it is very sad that muic is in such a bad place. however, i fail to see how posting lyrics and tabs online coinsides with the bands' income. if anything, i think it brings more of a fanbase. when a kid hears a band on purevolume or myspace, and is wondering about the lyrics, being a poor teenager and unable to buy cds that he doesn't know much about, the online lyrics sites allow the kid to see the words, which will make the music much more memorable, thus, keeping the kid stuck to the music, not just passing it off after a first hear...increasing fans and therefore, increasing revenue.
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I'm a man who fucks with fire. I'm a man who sleeps with liars, but I don't come from Hell, no. I wasn't raised in Hell.
Houdini_The Great wrote: what you said is a very well thought out, very true statement. and it is very sad that muic is in such a bad place. however, i fail to see how posting lyrics and tabs online coinsides with the bands' income. if anything, i think it brings more of a fanbase. when a kid hears a band on purevolume or myspace, and is wondering about the lyrics, being a poor teenager and unable to buy cds that he doesn't know much about, the online lyrics sites allow the kid to see the words, which will make the music much more memorable, thus, keeping the kid stuck to the music, not just passing it off after a first hear...increasing fans and therefore, increasing revenue.
frankly, the bottom line is that when ALL the lyrics from a particular record are posted online, the people who are going to use them are the ones who downloaded ALL the songs and don't have the record... ...the lyrics to hospital music were all posted online at one point on various sites and used to be on the old webpage since they aren't in the Cd booklet...you will see that regardless of what people have posted themselves (and without permission), the band, nor their label, have the lyrics to all the songs off the goodnight alchemy EP posted because there has been a correlation showed that one of the reasons people will still buy a disc, is for the lyrics inside...i know you think bands and labels are total corporate whores because of this, but its one thing they can try to do to keep selling records and prevent people from relying on downloading... ...as for wanting the lyrics to go along with songs posted on myspace or purevolume that people discover so they can get the most enjoyment out of them, this is why all the lyrics for songs which are available free online are posted in the trophy scars myspace blog... ...i really think it's one thing to admit "ok, i am too cheap or financially unable to buy a bands music, which supports their livelihood" but it's another to try and justify it and try to circumvent the fact that it IS stealing!!! before we were able to download music on a computer, would you go up to a bands merch table and steal their CD so you wouldnt have to pay for it? or would you make a hundred tapes of the disc and give it away to random people instead of encouraging them to buy it? it's one thing to burn a disc for one person so they can get into the music, but i think it is the fact that it's so easy just to 'click' and have the song is what masks the fact that it's theft. think about it...
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NO...i'm not in the band...i'm just faster and smarter and took the name first :)
what you said is a very well thought out, very true statement. and it is very sad that muic is in such a bad place. however, i fail to see how posting lyrics and tabs online coinsides with the bands' income. if anything, i think it brings more of a fanbase. when a kid hears a band on purevolume or myspace, and is wondering about the lyrics, being a poor teenager and unable to buy cds that he doesn't know much about, the online lyrics sites allow the kid to see the words, which will make the music much more memorable, thus, keeping the kid stuck to the music, not just passing it off after a first hear...increasing fans and therefore, increasing revenue.
frankly, the bottom line is that when ALL the lyrics from a particular record are posted online, the people who are going to use them are the ones who downloaded ALL the songs and don't have the record... ...the lyrics to hospital music were all posted online at one point on various sites and used to be on the old webpage since they aren't in the Cd booklet...you will see that regardless of what people have posted themselves (and without permission), the band, nor their label, have the lyrics to all the songs off the goodnight alchemy EP posted because there has been a correlation showed that one of the reasons people will still buy a disc, is for the lyrics inside...i know you think bands and labels are total corporate whores because of this, but its one thing they can try to do to keep selling records and prevent people from relying on downloading... ...as for wanting the lyrics to go along with songs posted on myspace or purevolume that people discover so they can get the most enjoyment out of them, this is why all the lyrics for songs which are available free online are posted in the trophy scars myspace blog... ...i really think it's one thing to admit "ok, i am too cheap or financially unable to buy a bands music, which supports their livelihood" but it's another to try and justify it and try to circumvent the fact that it IS stealing!!! before we were able to download music on a computer, would you go up to a bands merch table and steal their CD so you wouldnt have to pay for it? or would you make a hundred tapes of the disc and give it away to random people instead of encouraging them to buy it? it's one thing to burn a disc for one person so they can get into the music, but i think it is the fact that it's so easy just to 'click' and have the song is what masks the fact that it's theft. think about it...
lars?
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One day a student in a math class asked his teacher why two plus two equalled four. Immediately, the skeleton of Aristotle popped out of the ground and said to him, "because I said so."
yeah dude. i'm lars ulrich and i make millions of dollars off music and i'm going to complain about downloading...
...i'm trying to say that i guarantee wise asses like you probably have 20 records or more on your computer or ipod of bands (who are ARTISTS, you wouldn't go to an art gallery and steal someone's piece off the wall, would you?) who are struggling out there in the vans and trailers just trying to stay out on the road while you sit back and post on lambgoat all day...
so don't ****ing relate me and the bands i work with to lars ulrich, because unlike him, i can tell you from personal experience that downloading hurts independent music in the end...i'm not really saying there's a solution to the problem since technology always wins in the end..but it's pathetic that people try to justify it like the bands are some sort of coercive "enemy" for wanting to people to buy their records, god forbid...
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NO...i'm not in the band...i'm just faster and smarter and took the name first :)
i have a band, we don't have anything recorded yet, nor are we practiced enough to even play a show...but when we get to the point of recording, i'd rather have people hear my music for free than no one hear it at all. I'd like it all the more if people actually bought my album. I see your point, and there is validity in it. I just don't think completely erasing all music downloading and filesharing is the solution to the problem.
The beauty of independant music is that it is pure. it's not the copywrite property of any corporation. If the downloading independant music is prevented, each song then becomes a monetary value rather than a form of expression.
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I'm a man who fucks with fire. I'm a man who sleeps with liars, but I don't come from Hell, no. I wasn't raised in Hell.
what about your darts cd? we couldnt buy it anywhere on the internet (at least that i found) (until recently) but i could still download all of those songs but that doesnt mean im not going to buy the cd the second it comes out. ive spent 50+ on trophy scars.
what about the bands that have their sampler cd with only a few songs but if you look them up on limewire they have at least 10 songs?
im not tryin to say im right about anything. everything you said makes much more sense and is proly a lot more right then anythig i said.
One day a student in a math class asked his teacher why two plus two equalled four. Immediately, the skeleton of Aristotle popped out of the ground and said to him, "because I said so."
what about your darts cd? we couldnt buy it anywhere on the internet (at least that i found) (until recently) but i could still download all of those songs but that doesnt mean im not going to buy the cd the second it comes out. ive spent 50+ on trophy scars. what about the bands that have their sampler cd with only a few songs but if you look them up on limewire they have at least 10 songs? im not tryin to say im right about anything. everything you said makes much more sense and is proly a lot more right then anythig i said.
please remember i'm not in the band. i just work for them and am handling a lot of their correspondence as they prepare to record and my opinions on this board are my own and not theirs. there is no "band board name" and if they post on here, its from their personal accounts. so like, whatever we talk about on here is strictly between us!!! i think its great though how we are for the most part having a cordial discussion with differing (and sometimes shared) viewpoints...lets never let this board become stupid where everyone is so vicious towards one another (i.e. lambgoat or theprp) since we all know that if we were in the same room while TS was playing, we'd all sing together...
...houdini, what you are saying is great, and i would def want unobstructed access to any bands of mine's music put first when they are starting out...but i just hope you know its a lot different when being on the road is your job, ya know? like, you have to make money to live out there, its a fact of life when music is your only source of income...
fall for life, you have a very valid point...but just remember its a very specific one and all i said before was in general, knowhatimean?
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NO...i'm not in the band...i'm just faster and smarter and took the name first :)
fall for life wrote: what about your darts cd? we couldnt buy it anywhere on the internet (at least that i found) (until recently) but i could still download all of those songs but that doesnt mean im not going to buy the cd the second it comes out. ive spent 50+ on trophy scars. what about the bands that have their sampler cd with only a few songs but if you look them up on limewire they have at least 10 songs? im not tryin to say im right about anything. everything you said makes much more sense and is proly a lot more right then anythig i said. please remember i'm not in the band. i just work for them and am handling a lot of their correspondence as they prepare to record and my opinions on this board are my own and not theirs. there is no "band board name" and if they post on here, its from their personal accounts. so like, whatever we talk about on here is strictly between us!!! i think its great though how we are for the most part having a cordial discussion with differing (and sometimes shared) viewpoints...lets never let this board become stupid where everyone is so vicious towards one another (i.e. lambgoat or theprp) since we all know that if we were in the same room while TS was playing, we'd all sing together... ...houdini, what you are saying is great, and i would def want unobstructed access to any bands of mine's music put first when they are starting out...but i just hope you know its a lot different when being on the road is your job, ya know? like, you have to make money to live out there, its a fact of life when music is your only source of income... fall for life, you have a very valid point...but just remember its a very specific one and all i said before was in general, knowhatimean?
respect. *fist straight up in the air
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I'm a man who fucks with fire. I'm a man who sleeps with liars, but I don't come from Hell, no. I wasn't raised in Hell.
Lyrics on the internet is just convenient. I still buy albums and frequently look up the lyrics to those albums on the internet instead of going all the way into my room, digging out the album, and reading the small print on the insert.
